Racing in Thailand, Trials Preview : She’s the Boss
Carolijn Brouwer is dominating the first Pattaya Multihull International Festival currently being held in Thailand.Where AHPC and Nacra, along the entire line of windsurf brand factories are located.
On a more than key and interesting race, that is a perfect Preview of things to come at Santander Trials in March, Carolijn is showing her talent along Brett’s crewing and also the huge potential of the Viper to take the trials home.
Now, this means that the Viper/Nacra F16 are the perfect choice? No, to me the perfect choice would have been the Phantom Fying Project and now the Nacra 17 as I remarked yesterday on a comment.
Why?
Cause looking at current developments on AC and the multihull exposure worldwide with X40s, MOD70, M32, S33 plus the F18, A-Class and F16 racing and all the new cats and Tris out there, for 2020 the pressure to have two cats on the Games would have been too strong to let it down.
So having a Cat elected now that can stand this ridiculous forced Mixed format was the best choice for 2016 and a for a long term project on the Olympics campaigns.
Although the Viper/Nacra F16 can be good choices having them as the Female Multi option for 2020. And then we can add a super power, modern, curved foils or flying machine for the Open medal later.
Sadly the Nacra 17 seems not to be racing.
More info at www.thaicatregatta.org
Vipers, F20C, Infusions, Nacra F16s and more.
The interesting data here for me beyond the trusted Texel rating, is the actual/real time table. I try to get it.
Update from Carolijn’s Twitter: “Happy Viper Sailing at Thai Cat Regatta. Only two F20s in front us and beating all F18s over the line. Our results overall today: 1,1,1.”
| No | Sail No | Name | Tot | R1 | R2 | R3 |
| 1 | Viper F16 289 | Caroljn Brouwer, Brett Goodall | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| 2 | Nacra F20 23 | Xander Pols, Marc Pols | 8 | 2 | 4 | 2 |
| 4 | Viper F16 287 | Jason Waterhouse, Lisa Darmanin | 12 | 4 | 5 | 3 |
| 5 | Nacra F20 51 | Guillaume Laberenne, Jean-Richard Minardi | 12 | 5 | 3 | 4 |
| 6 | Viper F16 288 | Adrian Fawcett, Jesse Dobie | 13 | 6 | 2 | 5 |
| 3 | Infusion F18 7 | John Moret, Frank de Woord | 18 | 3 | 6 | 9 |
——
Note aside: For those doubting on my post on the H16 just look what Frenzied posted:
https://www.rio2016.com/en/the-games/sports/olympic/sailing You have to remember that the Star is out of 2016, a secured medal for Brazil with Robert Scheidt, they lost that one so they will try to hold to the Multis medal alternative with top H16 sailor Baby Arndt. Althougn the Brazilian team is quite strong in any class as we all know.
Maybe someone at the regatta can ask Carolijn when they ordered a 2 piece carbon mast to test for the Viper Olympic spec boat.
I have sailed the viper for the first time last weekend at the Geograph bay australia day regatta. Nice boat to sail, quick up wind and down well finished but the platform just does not have the stiff feel of an F18 or Tornado thats for sure. I doubt that the boats will stand up to the 200 days a year of sailig required for an olympic campaign, especially for a full olympic cycle or 2.
I agree that it might make a good boat for the female boat if it is possible to get 2 multis in for 2020, but I am more convinced that F16 is not the way for the 2016 mixed event.
I thought the Nacra F16 was the new standard according to Peter Vink??
” In a young class, as the F16 class is, we had to come up with a design that needs to be the benchmark for a long time. A 16 footer that can be used by recreational sailors and/or racing teams, pushing the limits of what is possible. Just get onboard and start exploring, with the launch of this F16, NACRA is not one step ahead but miles ”
https://catsailingnews.blogspot.com/2011/09/formula-16-new-nacra-design.html
walk your talk!
Hey guys, all Ok with the freedom of speech. But if you are naming someone just put your real name to back your claim.
As someone told me, I put the neck on many ocassions on several issues, but at least I take responsability for my opinions.
Do the same or shut up regarding crossed personal accusations.
Or just name the brand that is more 'global' and no one can take offense on those type of critics.
Hey anonymous, it Geographe Bay to start with. You forgot to mention you are a avid Tornado Sailor. You should leave your name so everyone knows who you are and knows you know nothing. For your information as you obviously don't know. The Viper is as stiff as a Tornado as it has the same hull construction as Tornado using epoxy resin and foam construction plus the Viper has the same size beams as Tornado. So the Viper would arguably be stiffer. F18 only uses vinylester or polyester (class rules).
If you think the Viper and Tornado are the same construction you are an idiot.
Marstrom Tornado's (most of the world fleet are built by Marstrom) are pre preg s and e glass with epoxy resin and nomex core. The hulls are cured in an oven at 120 deg for 8 hours This is substantially stiffer and longer lasting than the viper or any existing F16.
You are all missing the point here, the big question is when did Carolijn order a 2 piece carbon mast from Heol composites? once you know this then you know how fair the selection of a boat for the Olympics will be.
the 120° curing not give stiffness at all ,temperature is not a factor of stiffness, ok for the nomex but that the only point where a tornado could be stiffer!
now , a good infusion process have the same porosity than prepreg composites.
every body who know well composite job knows this.
it's tiring to hear some people speaking of something they don't use every day!
I will go one better.
Back in 2007 at the first F16 global challenge we investigated the first Viper build. It was at my own sailing club which has about 100 cats in the parking among which large numbers of any F18 from old dart hawk to newest infusion. Even an aging tornado and I can honestly say that the Viper was the stiffest boat around followed by the Stealth F16. It was unbelievable stiff in platform stiffness due to the capricorn F18 beams it uses in combination with its overall width that is less then the F18's and waaaaaay less then the Tornado.
So honestly speaking, I think anonymous is full it it. It could be that marstrom tornado's are better but the viper is by no means less stiff then the F18's or indeed the Hobie Tiger, Hobie 16 pr Spitfire. It is in fact one of the best boats available right now and in the top 3 of stiff boats that are seriesproduced incl the tornado.
Wouter hijink
curing epoxy resin at 20deg for 7 days gives a tensile strength of 60MPa whilst curing it at 80deg for only 5 hours this is raised to 80MPa.
I agree with you on one point: it is tiring to speak to people who have no idea what they are talking about.
Now, instead of fighting about build tech, go and find out when AHPC ordered a 2 piece carbon mast from Heol.
Dear Mr/Mrs Conspiracy Theory,
It was actually me that ordered the first 2 piece mast and I did that about 3 weeks after the 2011 ISAF Mid Year meeting in St.Petersburg. Which I attended as an observer.
There was discussion that a 2 piece mast might be a requirement. To cover all bases I ordered it on the chance it might happen. If you were there then you too would have known.
I’m guessing you wern’t there. Why not? The meetings are open to everyone, you just need to register as a observer.
If multihull sailors in general would show more interest in our sport and show up at the meetings, multihull would be in a much better position within ISAF and you might know how ISAF works and you wouldn’t complain so much.
Regards
Darren
An interesting explanation, but further explained by the fact that your business partner is on the Events and Equipment committee and is good friends with Dina Kowalyshyn who wrote the spec for the trials. The previously worked on the original womens skiff trials. Where there is smoke there is fire as they say.
Call me on skype.
"The Truth": why don´t you start analyzing and digging deeper on the specs and try to link them to some higher political interests within ISAF future possbile leaders.
"Where there is smoke there is fire as they say"
Dear anonymous
"… 7 days gives a tensile strength of 60MPa … "
Since when has tensile strength anything to do with stiffness ?
Point in case, all aluminium alloys have about 70 GPa Young's modulus (stiffness) whereas their tensitle strengths may vary from 30 MPa to over 300 MPa.
And that, my friend, proves beyond any doubt that you are full of it.
Wouter Hijink
There is a linear relationship between the estimated compressive strength and radial compressive force in a temperature range from room temperature to 80 °C.
If there was no increase in GPa/stiffness then why do boatbuilders use ovens?
maybe boatbuilder use the oven to cook food for lunch and they just put the boat in for flavouring?
because a curing last 15min at 120° c
, and at temperature room it needs 7 days to have "good properties".
and time is money !
post curing at temp does increase stiffness. it cost money to build a suitable oven and control the process, but the result is a stiffer laminate for the same weight and thickness. it has nothing to do with saving time. You could just as easily put the hulls in a corner or outside to cure for a few days, or they will cure just the same whilst being transported to the customers.
I would like to see you make Prepreg go off in Sweden without a oven. No wet resigns are legally allowed in Sweden.
curing with heat and pressure to increase stiffness of laminate has been a well developed and known practice in the industry for many years.
To argue otherwise is just plain silly, and shows a basic lack of understanding of composite construction.
I took the Viper down to Busselton for the Australia day regatta on top of our F18 edge and along with a Hobie tandem island Kayak.
The Viper was raced by a crew new to the boat and was test sailed by probably 6 new people who had backgrounds in Tornado, Nacra16 m2, F18 and windrush 14 experience variously. The boat went well finishing mid fleet each race, the other Viper racing came in 2nd overall on yadstick behind the F18 Edge which domianted all races. I took the VIPER for a sail with my usual crew and at 150 kg we felt a little heavy for the boat but it still sailed well, we had a high scoring , spectacular cartwheel down wind in 20 kts of wind for which we had to supply drinks for everyone, the boat did feel flexy though and I think that even thought the beams are the same size as the Tornado as pointed out in one of the early posts, the bits they are attached to are just not the same stiffness. It moves about and has a jiggly feel , not a criticisim , just an observation .It is a feel thing and I cant quantify it but when the sides are moving under your feet it gives a feeling of softness or more not being stiff.
Good ride ,suitable for olympics???
Let the trials decide.
By the way I am the West Aus rep for the viper incase there was any feeling of Bias within my comments.
Wouter, it look like your opinion is cut down. And that is by a professional boatbuilder with many years experience on all types of boats.
Viper=nice kids or womens boat at high level, but not for mixed teams at olympics
Easy to write that but it's the Viper that gets results.
https://www.thaicatregatta.org/results.html
First four mixed teams are on Vipers. Proven performers.
Everyone else is talking, they are doing.
compared to what? the Vipers are winning the f16 class… if you put the same mixed crews on the F20 they would win that as well.
Its not about some shitty handicap regatta, but selecting the right boat for this event commonly known as the OLYMPICS, it should be the pinnacle of the sport and encourage ATHLETIC performances and not diet crazy mini humans starving themselves for a light wind regatta in Brazil.
There racing pretty shit hot NACRA 16 teams
Can't believe I am reading some of this…and being Anonymous…that's embarrassing…
Didn't know that Marstrom Tornadoes used Nomex, I'm interested to know how that makes them last longer??
With people like this "participating" in democracy it truly shows that democracy is a failed institution when people have no idea WTF they are talking about and argue incessantly about everything.
democracy works… against us!
JLS