Feb 7, 2012

Olympics Trials: The Candidate, Nacra 17 launched.

1st photo by Jeff Dusek. Check more at facebook.com/multihull2016 .
Photos below by  F18 Team Race organizer, Mischa de Munck, currently in Thailand.
More in his blog www.mischasailing.com
Still can´t get a reference, but it seems it's size is more near to the F16 than the Infusion.

And we still have people pushing hard for the h16.... go figure. I call them Dinosaurs, the same as the monohull establishment but inside the multihull world. Evolution and history have proved that you can´t stop innovation, you can only delayed it a little. Oblivion will be the destiny for those living in the past, grabbed to their ancient toys ... "my precious" comes to mind.

Glad we are living in 2012, and not 1900 when Herreshoff's Amaryllis got banned by the same type of selfish people protecting the angry&slow status quo.


Rick said...

The nacra 17 is acutally 17 foot and 6 inches long,

Martin said...

Yes, check previous posts.
Look its volume and freeboard, I think it is not a 'compacted' Infusion but an 'enlarged' F16.

"Memo" said...

Thanks, Martín. Another classic post, direct, concise, and straight to the heart of the matter. A voice of reason. This is exactly the stuff I've thought for a long time but which would get me crucified by most of local Hobie fleet if I said it too loud.

Re. the size of the new 17: the (short and grainy) vid on the blog you linked to gives a decent sense of the proportions. It's a sweet boat. Any idea if M&M worked directly on this--or did Nacra just fiddle around with the zoom slider?

Martin said...

The Hobie Co, fleets and class should take no offense on the h16 not being suitable for the Olympics.
Just common sense.

Hobie has the best performer of the F18 fleet, said here several times, just read the Wildcat reviews.

They have the best recreational entry level boats like the Wave, read review also.

Hobie Alter created a culture, I'm aware of him since surfing as child , he is on top on my list.

Now I think Hobie Alter himself would agree that right now the h16 has finalized its innovation cycle , and it should remain as is.

The H16 is tricky and quite sensitive boat to sail, If I'm good at all racing cats is due to my experience on the Hobie 16 class riding the H16.

It is an added value many don´t have here to say all, I can compete one on one with people that have being saling/racing all their lives, I just started in 2002.
So if you wanna get good at any performance class I recommend you to train riding solo and overpowered the H16.

It is no coincidence I could manage the Wildcat in any condition with 1 week of sailing it, I got the sensitive driving from the Hobie 16.

Now all H16 fans, get a reality check and stop aiming on self served objectives.

This is 2012.

Nacra 17:
They´ve worked with Pete Melvin, I'm waiting for Gunnar's replies.. Hey Gunnar, if you don´t get selected no one is going to read your interview, send it before the trials!

Sandro said...

do someone already know something about sail area, weight, width?

maybe the boat fits the F18HT-class rules

Anonymous said...

no wing, no 3D front sail, no camera on board, not à flying cat.

This is obviously a cat from the past ;-)

More seriously, are Olympic Game only any kind of hi-tech show ?

Anonymous said...

the ht18 needs an update too if they want to survive,no more 10mt mast and curved foils to start.

Anonymous said...

spot a dino at 2:20pm

Anonymous said...

All the cat on the list are from the past (for info curved dagger exist since XXth century).

That's not hi-tech show and it's quite funny to pretend so.

A kid aged 18 years is able to built is own a-cat with such old tech.:

Little cup of america is leader for innovation, Hydroptère is another way in technology, as flying cat.

AC45 are 2012 technology std cat, not more. To consider Olympic games is (may be) more than a boat show and marketing target, is perhaps a way to consider

Anonymous said...

It will be interesting to see how it goes in the races in Thailand. Good place to compare against N20, F18's and the F16's. It will be interesting.

uli said...

Damn sure more sexy than the shorts of the two dudes there...^^

Anonymous said...

Do we want the flintstone generation or the facebook generation to be the public face of cats? H16 vs ?any modern boat?

no one cares about 100,000+ sold statistics.

Anonymous said...

Have a look on pics and compare with F16 podium: kids vs third age, isn't it obvious:


So you're right: HC16 people are young, all around the world and on facebook ;-)

Martin said...

Yes , exactly what kids wants:

Start sailing the H16, learn how to sail it, compete in a great class, participate in the Youth ISAF Worlds on the H16 with Spi, and then when they grow up, their major dream will come true, sailing the pinnacle of the sport on a ....H16

Get yourself a clue my great Dino french friend and put your name on your opinions.

Your lack of understanding multihull racing in this era is embarrassing.

Ask your youth fleet what they want to race when the are full grown ups.... maybe you'll get a reality check once more.

Anonymous said...

Today, it is obvious that the cat racing pinnacle is no more Olympic. Olympic medal is now a (very nice and important)ticket to AC.

You also notice that the (first) cat for 2016 is mixed, and IOC wants young champion, no more dino on podium or TV. The young mixed pair, on the facebook pic are between 18 to 27... HC16 world champ or euro champ are ready for Olympic, aren't they ?

For the second cat (open 2 men: 80% of youth fleet...) I agree with the need of a real hi-tech stuff, not 10-20 years old tech heavily marketed like the ISAF Santander list. Old F18HT are more "modern".

Just wait for 2020, Phantom V3 or AC20, or Nacra 20 MK3 with wings will be ok then.

Martin said...

Still don´t get it my great Dino French friend who is now afraid to put your name? but in other french forums you accuse ahpc of 'devil lobbying'.

This is no searching for the highest tech,it is aiming for a boat that can last more than one Olympic cycle so we don´t have these trial again, at least for mixed or females.

Everyone having an opinion different from yours, is 'lobbying' , you don´t make lobbies in every single website now, no Sir...
H Class does not make lobbies with NAs and inside isaf to get their boats selected for youths, Panams etc and now Oympics, no , no, No way...

Yours and other lobbies are good thing, the rest are 'bad boys'.

All companies make lobbies in some way, is their job to get contracts to sale their products and survive.
Hobie is doing their job to have more sales, as Ahpc, Nacra and others.

Go telling Fairytales elsewhere, we know who you are and You are Not welcome here. "Fuira cucha"

Anonymous said...

Martin, you are right on with your assessment of this boat and of the Hobie 16 and its defenders.

Also, it's not about having the most advanced technology, it's about having good mainstream technology like this Nacra 17 does.

Wing sails add very little performance to a 17'6 beach cat and are prone to breakage on capsize. Also, a full foiler tends not to perform well in lighter air.

This Nacra 17 will have great performance, significantly better than an F18 or F16 and probably better than a Tornado in most conditions. It is also a nice size for a mixed team.

Anonymous said...

Nice looking boat. Will be really interesting to see if the curved foils, carbon mast and lighter weight make it that much faster than the top F18's...

AHPC might have a fight on their hands!!

Nacra F16 cancels out pro's and con's of Viper. Leaves the 17 as the point of difference in the trials.

Good strategic work by them - and Nacra's the only one to invest in tooling for something completely new for the 5 ring circus. Well done.

Anonymous said...

Rediculous long boards, this would be a challenge to get these in when the main is on the end of the trac.

Anonymous said...

looks nice. i've been waiting a long time for an (almost) 18 footer that weights much less than an F18 (and is stronger than an HT18) but still has loads of power. has it sailed against other cats already in thailand? would be great to campare it's performance against an F18.

Anonymous said...

"Rediculous long boards, this would be a challenge to get these in when the main is on the end of the trac."

....why would you ever have the main on the "end of the trac"??????????

H16 sailor much?

Anonymous said...

Here comes a comment from the nitpicking team again:

"This Nacra 17 will have great performance, significantly better than an F18 or F16 and probably better than a Tornado in most conditions."

The above quote is not proven and I seriously doubt that this will be the case when the N17 is measured up against the F16 and Tornado. F18 have the numbers stacked against it but we will just have to wait and see.

Please carry on with the real discussion.

Oh, btw. my take on the H16.

Terrible boat to sail and maintain. Should have been put to bed with the rest of the dinosaur designs a long time ago.
Fantastic organisation and class.

Not the right boat for Citius, Altius, Fortius (Faster, Higher, Stronger, the olympic motto you might have heard about) or TV appeal.

Marco said...

If the HC '16 do not deserve an Olympic status because is a Dinosaur what are 470s, Finn, Laser? Sheer performance is a poor criteria for choosing an Olympic boat. History, prestige, a strong class, worldwide regatta organization are more important factors.

Anonymous said...

There are better choices than the H16 Marco.
The classes you mentioned are overdue for replacement, and they will also be replaced soon as I see it.

We are looking for a boat to satisfy TV, affordable participation and also interesting to sail. Class structure, history, prestige etc. went out the door with the Tornado.

FRENZIED said...

I like the canted daggers of Nacra's F16 better.

Anonymous said...

I hope that the tide is a bit higher for the Ronde Om Texel this year. Those boards look really deep!

Fantastic boat

Excellent marketing by Nacra

Anonymous said...

great boat NO ONE is waiting for

Too many boats, Too many classes great way to ruin the sport

Upgrade the F18 class guys and make this class better

great that there is only ONE Serious one person class: the A class !
this class will rule the catsailing world in the future !

Anonymous said...

What? The A class will rule the world? Are you out of your mind? With boats that change more often than my underwear and that cost up to $35,000 that is totally preposterous.

Anonymous said...

in terms of the highest level catsailing it might,
for numbers you need a heavy strong mainstreamer

not everyone can afford an ferrari...

Anonymous said...

"This Nacra 17 will have great performance, significantly better than an F18 or F16 and probably better than a Tornado in most conditions."

What I find interesting is that the results of this regatta seem to confirm that the Texelrating for the curved foil full carbon Nacra 20 in relation to the F16's (and F18's) with aluminium masts.

Honestly, Xander Pols is certainly no a slough and neither is Greg/Christa or several of the other crews sailing.

Of course this regatta provides incidental evidence at best but it doesn't appear that the curved foils or indeed all the carbon in the world is giving the Nacra 20 speed potential beyond what is predicted by Texel on weight, length, rig type and sail area alone. Or at least not a difference that is statistically obvious.

Therefor I doubt whether the new Nacra 17 will deliver significantly better performance because of its specs alone. Contrary to the latest marketing. Indeed, Texel prediction has the N17 at a rating of 101 whereas the F18's are at 100 and the F16's are at 102. Never mind the Tornado at 94.

Clearly a 2 point difference between the F18's and F16's means bugger all on the water if we look at the (elapsed) results. So how significant will a single point in performance be especially when the O-class will race SMOD anyway ?

I wonder.

Anonymous said...

the only boat that sails better (in all conditions) than the Tornado, is the Marstrom 20. And in +25 kts and big seas, the Tornado is nicer to sail.

I have owned and/or sailed all the boats that will be in Santander (except the Spitfire)

no other under 20ft long boat performs even close to those two mentioned above. ONLY the A-Cat or M18

now, for Olympic sailing, a new light and sensitive boat will be beneficial for the sport. Viper or Nacra 17 can both deliver a good performance/service...

The only problem with the Viper is that crew weight will be a huge factor depending on wind velocity... light/light and heavy/heavy will be a perfect combo... not too good for the Olympic arena...

The Nacra 17 can have an edge on that area...

there is no doubt on quality from both manufacturers, but there is also no doubt that no one can match the quality from Marstrom.

too bad that Goran does not care about the Olympics and only cares about quality!!!

As much as I love the Tornado, it should not be the boat for the next quad...

it is time to get over with the selection and move forward... after all, how many readers are going to do a serious full time Olympic campaign?

It is not about the boat!

The 49er is not even close to be the best skiff!!

It is all about the Game.

And ISAF should focus on that. we need W and M multihull! Next quad is all about getting the multis back in...


Anonymous said...

Ok then!All this talk of which boat is best.I have been sailing nearly 30 years and have never come across the perfect boat.My preference is the 16 foot class but not the h16,i have never liked them at all,no offence to mr hobie,and they do make some good boats,so do Nacra.I like the f16s,have raced on a blade which i found good,and like the look of the new nacra f16&17.The viper seems to have a problem in chop off the wind with the wave hitting the main beam and causing it to trip.If i was going to go for an all round boat i would definitely consider the new nacra f17,very bouyant boat in the chop!Nacra have done well with this design.Ultimately it's up to the individual for personal preference,there are some good boats out there and their performance has a lot to do with the "nut" behind the tiller!As for me,i own a hobie getaway for commercial use,personally it's the best all round cat i have come across,take all the resort gear off and they race fairly well against older 16 footers,i have even beaten cobras, mosquitos and hobie 16s with my getaway.I know it's not a race cat but you will not find a more bouyant 16 footer on the market!If i had the money a nacra 17 would be the go for racing,but i reckon a good inexpensive second hand blade will be the go!And it's not everyday you hear someone talk about a hobie getaway on this blog!As far as the olympics go it's nice to see fresh new and exciting boats racing,just like the ac45s in the america's cup,good stuff!

Anonymous said...

Hey there's a virtual version! See slboatporn.tumblr.com

Christine Jensen, Aarhus

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